BG 030: Croatia, Alabama, and Colorado Collide!
Episode Description:
In this episode Vince Horn speaks with two of Buddhist Geeks most active users: Daniel Ingram and Hokai Sobol. They discuss the reasons that people get into Buddhist practice, what really inspires one to “go for it”, and what hinders one from doing so. They finish off their conversation touching on the differences between Western Psychology, and the territory that contemplative practice covers.
This is part 1 of a three-part series. Listen to Part 2: Are you Stuck? Get Unstuck! & Part 3: Lacking Leadership, Lacking Conceptuality.
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Transcript:
Transcript coming soon…
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Hi Tom,
I couldn't agree more with your "both / and" approach to this issue. It's *both* helpful that we point out the distinction between process and content (because frankly for some people they just aren't able to look at things from a process perspective yet), *and* it's helpful to recognize that this distinction itself is not one that's separate from the dichotomy of process and content. Is it not a content-decision to separate them out? And does this distinction not break down at certain points for certain people?
For me, I've had to swing back, after many years of de-legitimizing the content of my experience, to focusing on the content and working with it as an "integral" (because that's now how I see it) part of my practice. My practice isn't simply recognizing the process of experience–and developing more impersonal insights into subjective experience–but is also an intimate engagement with the personal, storyline of Vincent. I really care about my life, and how it is lived.
As one of my other teachers, Jack Kornfield, often reminds people, "We have to remember our BuddhaNature and our zip code." The personal dimension of life is so important, and a greater awareness of the personal side of things may very well be one of the biggest contributions that Western culture has to offer to the West-East dialogue. Thanks so much for pointing this out.
Great comments guys! Thank you:)
Honestly…so meaningful to see the feedback. Thanks guys.
There's one thing I'll put out there as a further point of discussion (perhaps a podcast…er, you may have even done it and I just haven't heard it yet). Chogyam Trungpa stated that Buddhism would come to the West via Psychology. I've thought I've known what he meant by this every time I've thought about it in the past 4 years, except that each time I've thought something different. He definitely did not participate (nor integrally value) the psychoanalytic tradition, yet remains one of the the most glaring examples, in modern times, of a highly-realized guru who might well have benefitted from some content-exploration. And I don't want that to sound presumptuous…I only base this off first-hand accounts (Jeremy Hayward's book and his wife's book). I recall in "Warrior King of Shambhala," Hayward recounts that once Trungpa privately stated, "It has been a very lonely journey" (paraphrase). Now this is an extraordinarily, highly, realized practitioner offering a very common and very vulnerable reflection of his psyche. Should we be surprised by such a statement? Certainly not. Trungpa had a heartbreakingly painful time from childhood to his emigration to the states. Were he any other person of similar experiences, his lifestyle choices would be quite understandable. But because he was a Tulku, he's different, right? Here's where I see the flip-side to the discussion of this podcast. Process is important…SO important! As such, we must endeavor with traditionally taught practice. But…if you were abused or traumatized and the content of your psyche is still producing symbols and stimuli that relate back to that experience (or even if its just negative emotions/imagery from the past), its quite possible such content will continue to affect you upon its arising. Some experienced meditators will see this arising and in seeing it, may feel the space to "indulge" because of such recognition (in other words, suppress the content). Or the unexperienced meditator may feel the need to express themselves to their teacher because they've never sat with this turmoil before. In either event, Western psychology offers the supposition, that a change is available. For those in the Buddhist realm, we accept change in a factual (as well as philosophical) sense, but seldom in a psychical sense. That's understandable, since psyche is conflated with self/ego/I. And yet, it is subtly different in that it also includes unconscious arising and impersonal/universal archetypes. All this is quite separate from process (i.e. we all must dream, all unconscious content is presented as sense-based).
Trungpa probably would've enjoyed reclining on Freud's couch. Maybe the seed of this issue has to do with psychology's failure to produce a viable narrative, which exhibits its utility.
Hi Tom,
Yep, these are very interesting topics of exploration, which we have actually covered in various ways. You may (or may not) have seen them yet, but one was an interview with Trudy Goodman: "Zen, Vipassana, & Psychotherapy" (http://bit.ly/cKGses) and then also with John Welwood (who coined the term "spiritual bypassing"). That episode was entitled "Growing Up Versus Waking Up" – http://bit.ly/acKBQn
Thanks again Vince for the great show!