BG 057: Science as the Western Wisdom Tradition
Episode Description:
“The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained to liberation from the self.” – Einstein
One would think that the above quote would come from one of the East’s great sages, but instead it comes from one of the last centuries most celebrated physicists. In this episode Wes Nisker shares with us his understanding of the similarities and differences amongst the Eastern and Western approaches to knowledge. He uses the human brain and it’s two hemispheres as a metaphor for understanding these two different, and yet intimately related perspectives, and explores whether or not science is actually be a valid wisdom tradition.
We also discuss issues of intelligent design and evolution, as well as what it’s like to look at the history of humanity through a “deep time” perspective. Enjoy this fast-paced and intellectually stimulating dialogue.
This is part 2 of a three-part series. Listen to Part 1: Atto, Zepto, and Yacto: The Buddhist Marx Brothers, and Part 3: Crazy Wisdom Saves the Day!
Episode Links:
- The Big Bang, The Buddha, and the Baby Boom
- Einstein: His Life and Universe
- Einstein and Buddha: The Parallel Sayings
Transcript:
Transcript coming soon…
Author Info
I recently discovered your podcasts on iTunes and am working my way through them, oldest first. I just listened to BG055 and 057 with Wes Nisker. His comment that "science is the Western wisdom tradition" (BG 057, 3:10-4:15 elapsed interval) brought to mind an interview with Ken Wilber in Utne Reader about a dozen years ago. In his usual lucid style, Wilber said the same thing much more forcefully and comprehensively. The whole interview is at http://www.utne.com/1998-07-01/Upcloseandtransper…
Here is the relevant comment (top of p. 4); the stuff about myths in the first few sentences may seem off-the-mark, but it gives a context for the rest of the two paragraphs:
"The tragedy is that people have confused materialism with science, though they're not the same thing. Where we come to an impasse with 'proving' religious truth, and reconciling religion and science, is around the mythological–or exoteric–forms of practice. These myths are immune to the scientific method because they cannot be confirmed or disproved. However appropriate they may have been at the time that they arose, they just don't stand up to modern tests. When you talk about Moses parting the Red Sea, most scientists (and many of the rest of us) would say, 'Let's see evidence for that,' which is pretty slim, to put it mildly. That's not to rule out occasional miracles, but they are the exception rather than the rule. However, in all the world's great religions there is also a mystical–or esoteric–core, which is concerned not with beliefs, myths, or dogma, but with direct spiritual experience. None of the founders of the world's great religions handed down myths; they
had a direct experience: Moses and the burning bush, Christ's 'I and My Father are One,' Buddha under the bodhi tree. The whole point of their religious practices is experiential: 'Do this in remembrance of me,' 'Let this consciousness be in you which is in Christ Jesus,' or 'Repeat the enlightenment of Gautama Buddha by following his injunctions.' And mystical experiences do meet the criteria for the scientific method. The instructions for practicing Zen Buddhism are clear: If you want to test this knowledge, cross your legs, sit like this, and observe the mindstream, much as a mathematician might look at symbols. And as you continue to do zazen for a number of years, certain interior apprehensions, or satori, come to the fore. These experiences are then struck against the combined knowledge of the community (sangha) to determine their veracity. This is exactly what happens in the general scientific approach.
"Mystics have always claimed that they were practicing a kind of science that can be reproduced by those who follow the experiment. The fact that these forms of mystical knowledge have been handed down shows that these experiences are reproducible–not private, interior notions that can't be communicated. Science has managed to reproduce itself for two to three hundred years, while mystical science has been doing it for at least two to three thousand years. This is not insignificant."
The last four sentences of the first paragraph — beginning with "The instructions for practicing Zen Buddhism are clear:…" — sum it all up. And, as a lab scientist myself, they keep me coming back to the cushions every morning. Well, most mornings.