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	<title>Comments on: Taming the Mind: Four Perspectives on Enlightenment</title>
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	<link>http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/03/taming-the-mind-four-perspectives-on-enlightenment/</link>
	<description>Discover the Emerging Face(s) of Buddhism</description>
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		<title>By: Tina_A</title>
		<link>http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/03/taming-the-mind-four-perspectives-on-enlightenment/#comment-3338</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina_A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/?p=565#comment-3338</guid>
		<description>Kenneth Folk&#039;s approach is a balanced one.  He leaves no perspective out of his teachings, as is demonstrated by what he calls &quot;The Three Speed Transmission&quot;.  It&#039;s a complete package that covers the developmental practices of concentration &amp; insight meditation, as well as self-inquiry and finally surrendering to the absolute and resting in primordial awareness.

As a beginner, Kenneth suggested that I practice in 1st gear, and aim to dis-embed from feelings, thoughts, body sensations and states of mind.  I am grateful for his advice because, at my level, just resting in awareness results in spacing out and not clearly seeing the patterns that have bound me in habitual reactions.  Before I know it, I&#039;m caught up in the same old stories with my thoughts running the show.

Objectifying my experience has helped me see how deeply entangled I am in the thinking mind and it allows me to notice what&#039;s happening in the world of sensations, which, when done consistently, allows less time get caught up in thoughts and more of a chance to notice how quickly sensations arise and pass away in awareness.

I didn&#039;t think enlightenment was possible for me until I visited Kenneth&#039;s website. Check it out and see for yourself that people who hold jobs and have families are getting enlightened.  No matter what your level of experience, Kenneth is a skillful, compassionate guide who is open to all sincere seekers on the path!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kenneth Folk&#039;s approach is a balanced one.  He leaves no perspective out of his teachings, as is demonstrated by what he calls &quot;The Three Speed Transmission&quot;.  It&#039;s a complete package that covers the developmental practices of concentration &amp; insight meditation, as well as self-inquiry and finally surrendering to the absolute and resting in primordial awareness.</p>
<p>As a beginner, Kenneth suggested that I practice in 1st gear, and aim to dis-embed from feelings, thoughts, body sensations and states of mind.  I am grateful for his advice because, at my level, just resting in awareness results in spacing out and not clearly seeing the patterns that have bound me in habitual reactions.  Before I know it, I&#039;m caught up in the same old stories with my thoughts running the show.</p>
<p>Objectifying my experience has helped me see how deeply entangled I am in the thinking mind and it allows me to notice what&#039;s happening in the world of sensations, which, when done consistently, allows less time get caught up in thoughts and more of a chance to notice how quickly sensations arise and pass away in awareness.</p>
<p>I didn&#039;t think enlightenment was possible for me until I visited Kenneth&#039;s website. Check it out and see for yourself that people who hold jobs and have families are getting enlightened.  No matter what your level of experience, Kenneth is a skillful, compassionate guide who is open to all sincere seekers on the path!</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/03/taming-the-mind-four-perspectives-on-enlightenment/#comment-3337</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/?p=565#comment-3337</guid>
		<description>I think Duff&#8217;s comment may be the result of what appears to be a slight confusion around Wilber&#8217;s integral theory given in the interview.

For Wilber, the &#8216;State-Stages&#8217; of awakening are the Psychic, Subtle, Causal and Nondual (and/or sometimes One Taste, depending on which book you read). None of these State-Stages correspond with what is normally meant by the head, the heart or the pants; what these terms usually mean is covered by what Wilber calls &#8216;Lines&#8217; that demonstrate intellectual, social, emotional and physical developmental, and these usually appear within a graph whose axes are respectively the State-Stages and the holons of Spiral Dynamics.

It seems to me that what Kenneth is describing as the Personal is what Wilber describes with the Lines, the Transpersonal is both the Psychic and the Subtle, the Transcendent is the Causal (Wilber also describes this as &#8216;the Witness&#8217;) and the Absolute would be the Nondual.

So in other words, you can experience any of the State-Stages of awakening mediated by any of the perspectives of Spiral Dynamics whilst exhibiting a unique combination of intellectual, emotional, social or physical development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Duff&rsquo;s comment may be the result of what appears to be a slight confusion around Wilber&rsquo;s integral theory given in the interview.</p>
<p>For Wilber, the &lsquo;State-Stages&rsquo; of awakening are the Psychic, Subtle, Causal and Nondual (and/or sometimes One Taste, depending on which book you read). None of these State-Stages correspond with what is normally meant by the head, the heart or the pants; what these terms usually mean is covered by what Wilber calls &lsquo;Lines&rsquo; that demonstrate intellectual, social, emotional and physical developmental, and these usually appear within a graph whose axes are respectively the State-Stages and the holons of Spiral Dynamics.</p>
<p>It seems to me that what Kenneth is describing as the Personal is what Wilber describes with the Lines, the Transpersonal is both the Psychic and the Subtle, the Transcendent is the Causal (Wilber also describes this as &lsquo;the Witness&rsquo;) and the Absolute would be the Nondual.</p>
<p>So in other words, you can experience any of the State-Stages of awakening mediated by any of the perspectives of Spiral Dynamics whilst exhibiting a unique combination of intellectual, emotional, social or physical development.</p>
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		<title>By: John Eberly</title>
		<link>http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/03/taming-the-mind-four-perspectives-on-enlightenment/#comment-3336</link>
		<dc:creator>John Eberly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/?p=565#comment-3336</guid>
		<description>I struggled for awhile in a basically Soto meditative approach with what Nisargadatta Maharaj said about &quot;going beyond observation&quot; which was, for me, the last stop, indeed, the wide open space, where awareness was apparent without concept.  What Kenneth here says about objectification is very interesting, and happens naturally along the way, but here what he describes as a systematic approach I feel will save a beginning practitioner alot of time and effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I struggled for awhile in a basically Soto meditative approach with what Nisargadatta Maharaj said about &quot;going beyond observation&quot; which was, for me, the last stop, indeed, the wide open space, where awareness was apparent without concept.  What Kenneth here says about objectification is very interesting, and happens naturally along the way, but here what he describes as a systematic approach I feel will save a beginning practitioner alot of time and effort.</p>
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		<title>By: JoelG</title>
		<link>http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/03/taming-the-mind-four-perspectives-on-enlightenment/#comment-3335</link>
		<dc:creator>JoelG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/?p=565#comment-3335</guid>
		<description>Hi Duff.
You know, something pretty bad happened in my life today, and I&#039;m suffering over it quite a bit. One thing that is interesting, though, is how much more empathic I immediately felt as soon as I found out what had happened. It&#039;s like I suddenly remembered how, yes, others feel this, too. I immediately wanted them not to suffer and to instead be happy. Kenneth is someone who has suffered, suffered, suffered through most of his adult life. To label him as cold-hearted and cerebral based on this one comment, or on the perceived dryness of this approach to practice, seems unfair. The whole point of enlightenment, as Kenneth sees it, is to discover the happiness that is not dependent upon conditions. That is what literally saved his life and, I&#039;m sure, motivates his teaching.
Joel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Duff.<br />
You know, something pretty bad happened in my life today, and I&#039;m suffering over it quite a bit. One thing that is interesting, though, is how much more empathic I immediately felt as soon as I found out what had happened. It&#039;s like I suddenly remembered how, yes, others feel this, too. I immediately wanted them not to suffer and to instead be happy. Kenneth is someone who has suffered, suffered, suffered through most of his adult life. To label him as cold-hearted and cerebral based on this one comment, or on the perceived dryness of this approach to practice, seems unfair. The whole point of enlightenment, as Kenneth sees it, is to discover the happiness that is not dependent upon conditions. That is what literally saved his life and, I&#039;m sure, motivates his teaching.<br />
Joel</p>
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		<title>By: OliverUv</title>
		<link>http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/03/taming-the-mind-four-perspectives-on-enlightenment/#comment-3334</link>
		<dc:creator>OliverUv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/?p=565#comment-3334</guid>
		<description>nice article, nice photo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice article, nice photo</p>
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		<title>By: Duff McDuffee</title>
		<link>http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/03/taming-the-mind-four-perspectives-on-enlightenment/#comment-3333</link>
		<dc:creator>Duff McDuffee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/?p=565#comment-3333</guid>
		<description>&lt;/em&gt;...at a certain point you get to this coming-from-the-heart perspective.&lt;/em&gt;

Some people start there, or have heart as a primary aspect of their entire path. Similarly, some people discover the body first, middle, or last, and others never integrate the body.

I&#039;ve found the Enneagram helpful in illustrating these differences in personality type, but really any typology will do (5 Buddha Families, Astrological signs, MBTI, etc.). It sounds to me like Mr. Folk&#039;s advice is specifically for intellectual men who do a kind of technical, dry Vipassana. For intellectual types, the heart usually does come later, if ever.

Personally, I found this article too speculative, making too strong of claims for how the spiritual path &quot;must&quot; proceed. But perhaps Mr. Folk has illustrated what typically happens on the path using Mahasi Sayadaw&#039;s approach? I don&#039;t know, since that hasn&#039;t been a part of what I&#039;ve practiced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;at a certain point you get to this coming-from-the-heart perspective.</p>
<p>Some people start there, or have heart as a primary aspect of their entire path. Similarly, some people discover the body first, middle, or last, and others never integrate the body.</p>
<p>I&#039;ve found the Enneagram helpful in illustrating these differences in personality type, but really any typology will do (5 Buddha Families, Astrological signs, MBTI, etc.). It sounds to me like Mr. Folk&#039;s advice is specifically for intellectual men who do a kind of technical, dry Vipassana. For intellectual types, the heart usually does come later, if ever.</p>
<p>Personally, I found this article too speculative, making too strong of claims for how the spiritual path &quot;must&quot; proceed. But perhaps Mr. Folk has illustrated what typically happens on the path using Mahasi Sayadaw&#039;s approach? I don&#039;t know, since that hasn&#039;t been a part of what I&#039;ve practiced.</p>
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		<title>By: taming the mind &#171; Working Dharma</title>
		<link>http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/03/taming-the-mind-four-perspectives-on-enlightenment/#comment-3332</link>
		<dc:creator>taming the mind &#171; Working Dharma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/?p=565#comment-3332</guid>
		<description>[...] March 17, 2010 by JV    Four Perspectives on Enlightenment &#8212; Joel Groover interviews Kenneth Folk on Buddhist Geeks. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] March 17, 2010 by JV    Four Perspectives on Enlightenment &#8212; Joel Groover interviews Kenneth Folk on Buddhist Geeks. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/03/taming-the-mind-four-perspectives-on-enlightenment/#comment-3331</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/?p=565#comment-3331</guid>
		<description>Being both Kenneth&#039;s student and friend, I am happy to see a thorough yet accessible summary of his contribution to Western dharma posted on this site :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being both Kenneth&#039;s student and friend, I am happy to see a thorough yet accessible summary of his contribution to Western dharma posted on this site <img src='http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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