BG 181: Exchanging Dharma – The Consumer Mindset

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Episode Description:

We’re joined again this week by Buddhist teacher and scholar Hokai Sobol, to continue our exploration of the hidden mindsets and cultural forces that shape Western Buddhism. In this episode Hokai explores a tradition of exchanging knowledge, which is at least 1,000 years old in Europe, that of the “master & apprentice.” Hokai describes the process by which Europeans used to, and in some cases still do, learn a particular trade, by first becoming a novice apprentice, eventually striking out on one’s own as a journeyman, and then finally coming back to become part of the local guild, as a full master of one’s craft. This model, he explains, has striking similarities to the traditional model found in the Asian countries where Buddhism thrived.

He then presents a new model for how we might look at exchanging Dharma. This model includes three mindsets, or roles that we take on as Dharma practitioners and teachers, with the first one being the “consumer mindset.” We look at both the immature and mature versions of this consumer mindset, and how as a consumer we tend to approach the exchange of Dharma. In the next episode Hokai completes his contemporary model by describing the client mindset and colleague mindset.

This is part 2 of a multi-part series. Listen to part 1, The Invisible Forces that Shape Western Buddhism.

Episode Links:

• Hokai Sobol : Practitioner, Scholar, Pathfinder, Buddhist Geek
• Internet access is ‘a fundamental right’

Transcript:

Vincent: It’s interesting to hear a take on the traditional culture and traditional story of Buddhism, mostly in the East. And, part of the reason that we wanted to discuss this is because you, myself, and another teacher we were having this conversion, at one point, about how we might begin to do some programs through Buddhist Geeks. And of course, when we talked about doing programs, the issue of money came up at the forefront of that. How do we charge for these things? Do we charge? If we do charge, what models do we use? What are the underlying assumptions behind these models? Where are we coming from on this? How does it fit in to the rest of the cultural matrix of American and European Buddhists?

All these questions came to the forefront, and we really had a difficult time, more difficult than I expected, in exploring those topics. You know what I mean, it was very challenging. Because, on the one hand, I felt like I wanted to do something a little bit new and different from some of the models I’ve been part of, which I thought had some big holes. On the other hand, there’s a lot of good things in those models that have values like generosity built in and have really beautiful elements that would be foolish to get rid of. Like you’re saying, the moment that one set of assumptions is taken out, there’s some new set that has to take its place.

Hokai: Oh yeah.

Vincent: So, that just brought up this big question of, “Okay, in the contemporary Buddhist culture, what kind of economics make sense? Do we stick with the old elaborate donation models that you described? Do we move to more a model that’s more in line with the mainstream capitalistic society? At least, in the case of America, I know that it’s not the case in all of the West.

These questions came up, and questions around student and teacher came up as well and what do those role look like. So I figured maybe it’d be good moving from the traditional story to start talking about what things look like now. What are some contemporary examples of different invisible forces, cultures that are in the West.

Hokai: Oh yeah. Sure. Sure. Well, first of all, the transmission of dharma—and when I say transmission, I mean, here in very broad sense. I mean, also, not just the transmission of lineages and the formal titles and succession of masters and schools and stuff. But, the transmission, meaning also the translation of text, the establishment of permanent places in the West where reliable instruction can be received, etc. So, through all this process is not taking us only through space, namely, from one continent in the East to another place in the West. But, the transmission is also taking place through time, meaning that most of what is transmitted has not really been modernized in the East. Of course, any monk can use a mobile or get access to the Internet, but the technique of it is not what we’re discussing here, of course, because values and relationships need to change accordingly.

The Western world has seen some models in the past, as well, that are not so far off from the Eastern models. Namely, the model of the master and apprentice was a universal way of teaching in the West for, at least, a thousand years. I would say, from the time of Greece. The master-apprentice model is very illustrative because it shows that there is something trans-cultural. In this sense, a time-tested model based on the relationship between two or more people has been developed in different cultures. And that basically, the apprentice, all across Europe, who would want to study anything from carpentry to contemplative prayer to Kabbalah, would basically move in with his teacher. And sometime, there would be substantial donation implied at the beginning of the study by the family of the student. And sometimes, the situation would be such that the master would, basically, take care of all of the apprentice’s needs. That the apprentice would, of course, not get paid, but would, instead, pay for accommodation and food through working with the masters, through being the assistant. Now, what comes about here is that the apprentice would learn whatever is the knowledge, skill, discipline within that relationship. So, basically, this relationship, this being together, would serve as a context for the learning process.

And some of that has been preserved in the universities with the mentoring system, where students have quite a high degree of access to the mentor professor. They can approach his chamber, and whether in office, they can knock on his door late at night or whatever. Of course, it’s individual and it depends. But there is a convention around that, that indeed, the student and the mentor are almost family.

This element has been preserved in spite of the huge blow by the modernity and post-modernity to the traditional system of transmitting knowledge and skill. So there is something to be said for that, and I don’t mean it in little terms. I’m all for that, as long as we can really update the whole thing to fit our psychologies, personalities, and social relations so that it can indeed be psychologically, economically, and culturally sustainable, and effective. And not just a valuable traditional way of doing things.

So, basically, we have a model, and it still lives in some countries like Germany and France for some professions like carpentry. You have your apprenticeship period with the master of carpenter and then, after that period, that is usually several years, you have three years plus one day being a journeyman. You become a journeyman by traveling throughout the country and you never come back to within 50 miles of your city. After that process, where you proved that you can earn and that you can serve people and that you can get a stamp in each city office where you visit, you come back to your original place where you are going to live and work, and the guild confirms your mastery of carpentry, for example. These journeymen are well known in Germany. They have a special uniform, and everyone can recognize them. People are not afraid when they see someone looking like a character from “Harry Potter,” knocking on your door, and offering services or whatever. [Laughter]

So, basically, this is just a side note, or a footnote, to say that the Western world, even recently and even nowadays, is not a complete stranger to apprenticeship and to establishing, I would say, a rather close learning situation between someone who’s got something and someone who’s interested in the something. So, basically, there are conventions that we can rely on to just see what works and what doesn’t.

So, moving into the contemporary situation, there are many ways we can talk about the roles and relationships and stuff. But, I believe, the best models or the most useful ones are those that are, at the same time, relatively simple and relatively elegant in the way they fit into the situations so that we can recognize very quickly and apply some of these tools in our own private situations or, perhaps, in our community.

One way of seeing what those models, and what those mindsets, are that can become activated when we are in a situation of dharmic exchange… So, it could be another student, it could be, if you were a teacher out there, it could be another teacher. It could be plural, across the range and across the scope of these different relationships and across the traditions, which is very important, because often, people will say, “Well, maybe that works in the Vipassana community, you know, but in our Dzogchen community, that would never work.

So, one way of looking at these is that the lowest common denominator, basically, that we all understand but that we, somehow, do our best to avoid thinking about openly, is the consumer. So, the consumer is a role that we find ourselves playing and being played by, practically day in and day out. So, we buy stuff, we sell stuff. We look at the price tag. We think about it, and compare prices and we say, “Oh, God, this is like 300 something and this is 100 something and it looks the same. So, this 300 must be robbery, and this 100 is a best buy or whatever.” So, it’s basically very early mechanism of evaluating situations.

But, it doesn’t work only with money, it works also with anything that can be perceived as being given over or let go of in order to come into the opportunity to receive something, or to get something, or in order to acquire the right to have something, to take something. So, there are issues of time and issue of sacrifice and all sorts of stuff. But, basically, a consumer will have the impulse to give as little as possible and to come back with as much as possible, which is a legitimate consumer impulse. I know many people out there are somewhat allergic to mentioning consumerism and BuddhaDharma in one sentence, which I just did.

Vincent: [laughs]

Hokai: I believe consumerism can be safely included under the umbrella of “healthy attitude,” as long as we’re clear about what it means, and what it can do, and what it cannot do. Of its limitations and of its somehow, inherent, slant.

If, as a student, I unwittingly become played by this consumer program, if this mindset comes online within me, I will tend to value stuff in a counter-proportional manner. Namely, if a practice can be done in 10 days, why should I do it 100 days? Then also, if a teacher is here in New York, why would I travel to see another one in Los Angeles? Or, if a book costs $35 on Amazon, but I can download a scanned PDF copy for free, why would I pay for the book, or something like that?

So, there’s a whole mindset there. Basically, a consumer feels he or she wants something he or she doesn’t have. That’s the basic mindset. And the consumer will perceive someone else as having that, which he or she wants.

Vincent: Yes.

Hokai: Yeah. And there will be conditions between these two people. The other person will rarely, if ever, come and just say, “Oh, you want my dharma. Here it is, no problem.” Unless they are stoned or something.

Vincent: Yes.

Hokai: However, what I’ve just described is the limited or the unhealthy version of consumer. The one which most Buddhist out there presume we’re talking about when we say “consumer.” But there is also a healthy dimension of this, namely, that someone who is a consumer is also aware that there are always expenses involved in everything. Someone who is a mature consumer is well aware that nothing comes for free, in terms of production. And a human being needs not just the traditional, what was it, food, shelter, clothes, and medicine. Those were the four basic requisites for a monk’s life. Well, we have now one country, I think, it’s Norway or Finland, that proclaimed that fast access to Internet is a human right.

Vincent: Yep.

Hokai: Yeah, so, we’re moving ahead, and we got schooling introduced 200 years ago. Things are changing, we are all literates these days, most monks were not in the past. Things are changing in many ways and every one of these advancements has a certain cost. The whole process of maintaining and sustaining a contemporary dharma transmission, and creating favorable environments, doing what we can to have those environments as permanent as it’s possible. All these things have their cost and have their expenses in many, many different ways.

So, being a responsible and a conscious consumer in the dharma can be made into a virtue. Namely that, we can become aware that by investing our money, whether through buying or through donation or becoming a sponsor or a patron or whatever… The word “customer” comes from developing a custom of spending somewhere. And I would suggest that we can be a dharma customer by developing a custom of serving the dharma by the way we spend. This sometimes means spending more somewhere and spending less somewhere else. But, most often, it means spending consciously and spending responsibly, and caring about what our money is doing and caring about the effects of that money. And demanding transparency from our organizations, teachers, and other fellow students. Discussing it openly. Putting aside the mentality where money is taboo and where money has no value, while, in private life, if we lose $200, we are at least nervous, until we find the $200, or stuff like that.

So, this consumer notion is very important to recognize as a certain mindset, as a certain archetypal role that we can play into or be played by, whether unwittingly or fully consciously. Hopefully, we do more of the later and less of the former.

Related Posts:

• BG 182: Exchanging Dharma – Client and Colleague Mindsets
• BG 183: The Timeless Tradition of Spiritual Apprenticeship
• BG 180: The Invisible Forces that Shape Western Buddhism
• BG 111: Japanese Shingon: The True Word School
• BG 031: Are you Stuck? Get Unstuck!